I have been a bit concerned, too. I have been checking this forum for the last couple of months, as well as the blog. There has been no update of the blog for about a year and a half.
I have been thinking about getting this, but I am not willing to buy it without a couple of features that are on the roadmap, but I am wondering if there really is a lot of work still being done on AM.
@ravasb:
Given that the last update was released in September, and that there's only one programmer doing all the work, the situation really isn't as dire as you make it sound. If you'd prefer regular updates, like at the speed of what Cockos does with Reaper, I'm reasonably sure you won't be happy with Audiomulch. Remember that it has been around for 14 years and is still only at version 2.1.
Get it for what it already does, or check back in if at some point in the future new functions that you like show up. But it'll just drive you crazy waiting around for desired features to be added. Take it from someone who has used the software since 1998.
Good points. I will check in from time to time, but I think it we be quite a while before I consider purchasing this.
As a solo artist who works mostly in the studio, and not on stage, AM is not aimed at me. I should stop wondering whether it will be something different, but the dev clearly has a vision of what he wants and does not want. I completely respect that.
AM is on the cusp of becoming one of the most insanely good apps on the market, but the dev cycle really does stop it from achieving its full potential.
Theres a plethora of stuff which could seemingly be added without alot of fuss, but with Ross flying solo it must be alot of work.
Who am I to judge?
I also agree that purchasing AM 2.whatever is a big ask with where it stands at the moment. Im still on v1. and have been for years because what i really want and need is a long way on the horizon.
I actually don't have a problem with a slow developer cycle. What I have a problem with (as a customer) is dev publishing roadmaps, then leaving them online horribly out of date, with remarks such as "check back in a month for an update" (which was in September). I fully respect Ross in taking as much time as he needs, but maybe he should reconsider publishing out-of-date infomation, that's all.
I am taking the time to write again because I really would like to see this succeed. Ross seems to be locked into a sort of vicious cycle. Because AM has an extremely limited audience, he probably cannot sell that many copies each month. This means he has to maintain a full time job doing something else, which does not give him the time to develop the things that might lead to increased sales.
I say limited audience for the following reasons:
If you need a new DAW, this is not for you.
If you primarily use a DAW in your music, this is also not for you, because without rewire you constantly have to re-render every time you want to make a tempo change. Also, you cannot adjust the AM tracks on the fly with other tracks that are in your DAW.
If you perform live, the odds are pretty good that you want some sort of DJ functionality even if it is just to sync and stretch your own tracks. If you need that, AM is not really for you either.
This leaves a relative handful of live performers who would buy this.
When I first heard about AM it was version one for $69 dollars. I went to the website, but it had already gone to version two for $189, which took me out of the range for something that I really could only use for making ear candy. Wonderful ear candy, but not for whole tracks.
Ross either needs to add rewire or vst support or drastically reduce the price, with the thought that increased volume would ultimately lead to greater profits.
No need to worry. Ross has to make a living like anybody else which means programming for other projects and raising enough money to continue working on AM. I know Ross will stick to his roadmap regardless of the time it takes.
As far as audiomulch 2.0 being just eye candy, sorry but no way. People who bough v2 are also entitled to 2.x. That means new features and bug fixes. I would not revert to version 1 ever. The new automatic patcher is very unique to AM and saves a lot of time.
I've been using Audiomulch since the very beginning and I remember that betas would expire after a while but there was always a new beta coming out and people could basically use it for free for as long as they wanted (fully functional also). Now I bough it for $50 at the time (or so) and the update price was $89 I think. $139 for all the time I've been using it and all the fun I had is nothing.
Thanks for the supportive comments. I agree with almost everything people have said above. Here are some comments:
I don't have another full time job. Much of the year I work at least 70-80% on AudioMulch with a few side projects now and then. That said, the last two months I have been busy on a more-than-full-time project for a big art museum here in Australia -- the bulk of the work is over now, and hopefully that work will also make its way in to AudioMulch in the future. Also, like everyone else I do need a holiday once in a while -- I hadn't taken a break since 2007 so late last year things were slow with AM development, with a few trips out of town.
Developing AudioMulch solo _is_ a lot of work and the pace of development reflects that. That said, I have been able to afford to pay other people to help me -- I just can't afford a full time staff. It would be nice but that's not the scale of the business right now.
As to the price: I considered my options before AudioMulch 2.0 was released -- something needed to be done as the sales were not supporting the project. I chose to increase the price rather than decrease it. Why? AudioMulch is a specialised product and I think people who really value it's features are happy to pay the price -- making it cheaper would have only made it more popular with a broader audience, and I don't have the resources (or interest) to support a broad audience -- I'd prefer to keep things focused on what it does well.
Point taken about the blog and the "check back soon" on the roadmap (seriously, I am not proud of the fact that the blog isn't getting updated but it is a lot of work to write those posts and development has taken priority). I do have goals for AM2.2 and I will put them in a public road map soon. Since late last year I've been working on code-cleanup towards improving the undo system (already mentioned on the current roadmap) and I've been discussing what will be in 2.2 with people privately. I've also been working on improving the performance of the GUI since that seems to be one of the things that people who stick to 1.0 have been complaining about in 2.0. I started to look at Rewire support but it's not looking very promising at this stage.
So in summary: when I am busy working I start to ignore the world, and outbound communication on the website suffers. Sorry about that, I'm not sure what I can do to improve it. But hopefully this explanation helps a little. I do try to answer all my email, so if you really need to reach me I'm always there.
Ross,
Thank you for your very informative and candid remarks. I appreciate the importance of remaining true to one's vision.
If you ever find a way to add rewire or VST functionality I would definitely buy this. I wish you much luck with AM.
I do studio work with Mulch and get by fine without re-wire or loading it as vsti in another porgram. In fact I've gotten so used to working this way I'm not sure how much I'll even use those feature if/when they are added. :) Of course there is already JACK and Soundflower if you really need it.
Ross, how about crowd-sourcing the blog? Your posts are in-depth and glorious, but they almost belong in a book or a manual. Maybe you could find some trusted users, come up with a list of possible topics and offer some kinda small reward like beta access or name in credits or something. For the blog posters it would be a good way to self promote as well....
I'm at the noob stage with AM, despite having bought it some time ago. But I have no complaints about the implementation of new features whatsoever. I bought this software after reading the SOS review because it seemed to me to be something different from a DAW, and perhaps more conducive to an old analog knob-twiddler like myself. Current interface limitations (I really need 8-in USB - any comments on the MOTU Ultralite?) are holding me back from taking advantage of all that AM has to offer, but with JACK and whichever DAW, I've found it to be quite inspiring. So just wanted to add my support for all your efforts, Ross. Now that i've finished renovating my bathroom, perhaps I'll be able to get back to some mulching!
$189 is a STEAL. I would be happy to pay $189 per year! Well... you know what I mean.
I'm with Jonah and others - AM is the perfect REPLACEMENT for just about any DAW. Studio work, live performance - anything. It's just a different way of working. A way of working that can shake up your perspective and thinking for when you do return to, or otherwise incorporate, an especially linear DAW.
I am all for ReWire, VST, and on and on but IMO AudioMulch with those features is worth more like $299 US and up. Especially in this world where a quick check at KVR reveals what you typically get for that kind of cash.
Anyway, AM is beautiful the way it is, and worth every penny. Most, or all, of its apparent limitations can be creatively dealt with. That it enjoys the limited user base that it does really blows my mind - makes me feel sort of clever for catching on...? heh. thanks Ross B! Keep it coming.
"Of course there is already JACK and Soundflower if you really need it. "
These are in no way a replacement for ReWire. Not even close.
I believe that adding ReWire and VST capability would increase the sales and market 1000 fold... Its certainly the only thing i need and the only thing that would make me upgrade. Apart from the granuliser and mixers i use no other contraptions. Mulch purely exists as an environment for me to make convoluted chains of synths, drum machines and effects that I cant do, or cant do easily, elsewhere.
Im completely and totally confused as to why there seems to be so much resistance in adding such basic and standard features. Even if a third party was paid thousands of dollars to code these into Mulch, the new market would pay for it overnight.
Its the number one gripe and request i hear across forums and from friends. And i know i go on about it but it really makes no sense. I dont understand why Ross would toe the line with such things as.."well, this is not for you" or "youll be waiting a long time" (not direct quotes) when its obvious that its really wanted , often requested and if implemented everyone would use it.
$189 is a STEAL. I would be happy to pay $189 per year! Well... you know what I mean.
I'm with Jonah and others - AM is the perfect REPLACEMENT for just about any DAW. Studio work, live performance - anything. It's just a different way of working. A way of working that can shake up your perspective and thinking for when you do return to, or otherwise incorporate, an especially linear DAW.
I am all for ReWire, VST, and on and on but IMO AudioMulch with those features is worth more like $299 US and up. Especially in this world where a quick check at KVR reveals what you typically get for that kind of cash.
Anyway, AM is beautiful the way it is, and worth every penny. Most, or all, of its apparent limitations can be creatively dealt with. That it enjoys the limited user base that it does really blows my mind - makes me feel sort of clever for catching on...? heh. thanks Ross B! Keep it coming.
I would better understand keeping AM a closed system if you could build your own modules in it like Reaktor, Bidule and Usine. The number that AM comes with is pretty limited by comparison, though they are of good quality. My favorite feature is the metasurface, but that by itself is not enough to make up for the other aspects it lacks.
You could make the argument that its limitations are a feature, forcing you to be more focused and creative with a limited number of tools. I would agree to some extent, but not for $189.
AM clearly has a very dedicated and protective following. Ross and the user base seem pretty happy.
ravasb, thanks for your input. Some points to note:
AM is not a closed system. It can be easily extended with VST and AU plugins. There are lots of good free VST and AU plugins out there. Some of the environments you mention can also be run inside AudioMulch as plugins (Reaktor and Bidule are commonly used inside AM).
You mention some great modular synth building environments (max/msp, pd and supercollider are other popular ones). I know AM has a lot to learn from them. But offering the same functionality and workflow is not the focus of AM. If you are a "build your own synth out of basic oscillators and filters" type person then I agree AM probably isn't going to be your primary tool. On the other hand, if you're a "make sounds and music processing sounds and plugging processing gadgets together" then AM has more to offer -- and I don't mean in terms of the effects, but in terms of how easy it is to do certain things. Last time I checked, repatching signal flow in the middle of a performance wasn't easy in Reaktor for example.
I agree that more contraptions would be a good thing and that is planned. I'd be very interested to hear a more complete list of "aspects it lacks" from your perspective. Either here or to rossb@audiomulch.com
New "roadmap" here: http://www.audiomulch.com/whats-coming
I'm happy to continue the above discussion in this thread, but please post comments about the new roadmap to the new thread: http://www.audiomulch.com/content/new-whats-coming-page-was-roadmap
I have been a bit concerned, too. I have been checking this forum for the last couple of months, as well as the blog. There has been no update of the blog for about a year and a half.
I have been thinking about getting this, but I am not willing to buy it without a couple of features that are on the roadmap, but I am wondering if there really is a lot of work still being done on AM.
Edit
Double post
@ravasb:
Given that the last update was released in September, and that there's only one programmer doing all the work, the situation really isn't as dire as you make it sound. If you'd prefer regular updates, like at the speed of what Cockos does with Reaper, I'm reasonably sure you won't be happy with Audiomulch. Remember that it has been around for 14 years and is still only at version 2.1.
Get it for what it already does, or check back in if at some point in the future new functions that you like show up. But it'll just drive you crazy waiting around for desired features to be added. Take it from someone who has used the software since 1998.
Good points. I will check in from time to time, but I think it we be quite a while before I consider purchasing this.
As a solo artist who works mostly in the studio, and not on stage, AM is not aimed at me. I should stop wondering whether it will be something different, but the dev clearly has a vision of what he wants and does not want. I completely respect that.
relevant concerns none the less.
AM is on the cusp of becoming one of the most insanely good apps on the market, but the dev cycle really does stop it from achieving its full potential.
Theres a plethora of stuff which could seemingly be added without alot of fuss, but with Ross flying solo it must be alot of work.
Who am I to judge?
I also agree that purchasing AM 2.whatever is a big ask with where it stands at the moment. Im still on v1. and have been for years because what i really want and need is a long way on the horizon.
Regardless AM is still pretty cool.
I actually don't have a problem with a slow developer cycle. What I have a problem with (as a customer) is dev publishing roadmaps, then leaving them online horribly out of date, with remarks such as "check back in a month for an update" (which was in September). I fully respect Ross in taking as much time as he needs, but maybe he should reconsider publishing out-of-date infomation, that's all.
I am taking the time to write again because I really would like to see this succeed. Ross seems to be locked into a sort of vicious cycle. Because AM has an extremely limited audience, he probably cannot sell that many copies each month. This means he has to maintain a full time job doing something else, which does not give him the time to develop the things that might lead to increased sales.
I say limited audience for the following reasons:
If you need a new DAW, this is not for you.
If you primarily use a DAW in your music, this is also not for you, because without rewire you constantly have to re-render every time you want to make a tempo change. Also, you cannot adjust the AM tracks on the fly with other tracks that are in your DAW.
If you perform live, the odds are pretty good that you want some sort of DJ functionality even if it is just to sync and stretch your own tracks. If you need that, AM is not really for you either.
This leaves a relative handful of live performers who would buy this.
When I first heard about AM it was version one for $69 dollars. I went to the website, but it had already gone to version two for $189, which took me out of the range for something that I really could only use for making ear candy. Wonderful ear candy, but not for whole tracks.
Ross either needs to add rewire or vst support or drastically reduce the price, with the thought that increased volume would ultimately lead to greater profits.
I wish him well. He has some really great ideas.
No need to worry. Ross has to make a living like anybody else which means programming for other projects and raising enough money to continue working on AM. I know Ross will stick to his roadmap regardless of the time it takes.
As far as audiomulch 2.0 being just eye candy, sorry but no way. People who bough v2 are also entitled to 2.x. That means new features and bug fixes. I would not revert to version 1 ever. The new automatic patcher is very unique to AM and saves a lot of time.
I've been using Audiomulch since the very beginning and I remember that betas would expire after a while but there was always a new beta coming out and people could basically use it for free for as long as they wanted (fully functional also). Now I bough it for $50 at the time (or so) and the update price was $89 I think. $139 for all the time I've been using it and all the fun I had is nothing.
Hi Guys
Thanks for the supportive comments. I agree with almost everything people have said above. Here are some comments:
I don't have another full time job. Much of the year I work at least 70-80% on AudioMulch with a few side projects now and then. That said, the last two months I have been busy on a more-than-full-time project for a big art museum here in Australia -- the bulk of the work is over now, and hopefully that work will also make its way in to AudioMulch in the future. Also, like everyone else I do need a holiday once in a while -- I hadn't taken a break since 2007 so late last year things were slow with AM development, with a few trips out of town.
Developing AudioMulch solo _is_ a lot of work and the pace of development reflects that. That said, I have been able to afford to pay other people to help me -- I just can't afford a full time staff. It would be nice but that's not the scale of the business right now.
As to the price: I considered my options before AudioMulch 2.0 was released -- something needed to be done as the sales were not supporting the project. I chose to increase the price rather than decrease it. Why? AudioMulch is a specialised product and I think people who really value it's features are happy to pay the price -- making it cheaper would have only made it more popular with a broader audience, and I don't have the resources (or interest) to support a broad audience -- I'd prefer to keep things focused on what it does well.
Point taken about the blog and the "check back soon" on the roadmap (seriously, I am not proud of the fact that the blog isn't getting updated but it is a lot of work to write those posts and development has taken priority). I do have goals for AM2.2 and I will put them in a public road map soon. Since late last year I've been working on code-cleanup towards improving the undo system (already mentioned on the current roadmap) and I've been discussing what will be in 2.2 with people privately. I've also been working on improving the performance of the GUI since that seems to be one of the things that people who stick to 1.0 have been complaining about in 2.0. I started to look at Rewire support but it's not looking very promising at this stage.
So in summary: when I am busy working I start to ignore the world, and outbound communication on the website suffers. Sorry about that, I'm not sure what I can do to improve it. But hopefully this explanation helps a little. I do try to answer all my email, so if you really need to reach me I'm always there.
Thanks
Ross.
Ross,
Thank you for your very informative and candid remarks. I appreciate the importance of remaining true to one's vision.
If you ever find a way to add rewire or VST functionality I would definitely buy this. I wish you much luck with AM.
Thanks for the update, Ross :-)
I do studio work with Mulch and get by fine without re-wire or loading it as vsti in another porgram. In fact I've gotten so used to working this way I'm not sure how much I'll even use those feature if/when they are added. :) Of course there is already JACK and Soundflower if you really need it.
Ross, how about crowd-sourcing the blog? Your posts are in-depth and glorious, but they almost belong in a book or a manual. Maybe you could find some trusted users, come up with a list of possible topics and offer some kinda small reward like beta access or name in credits or something. For the blog posters it would be a good way to self promote as well....
I'm at the noob stage with AM, despite having bought it some time ago. But I have no complaints about the implementation of new features whatsoever. I bought this software after reading the SOS review because it seemed to me to be something different from a DAW, and perhaps more conducive to an old analog knob-twiddler like myself. Current interface limitations (I really need 8-in USB - any comments on the MOTU Ultralite?) are holding me back from taking advantage of all that AM has to offer, but with JACK and whichever DAW, I've found it to be quite inspiring. So just wanted to add my support for all your efforts, Ross. Now that i've finished renovating my bathroom, perhaps I'll be able to get back to some mulching!
One More:
$189 is a STEAL. I would be happy to pay $189 per year! Well... you know what I mean.
I'm with Jonah and others - AM is the perfect REPLACEMENT for just about any DAW. Studio work, live performance - anything. It's just a different way of working. A way of working that can shake up your perspective and thinking for when you do return to, or otherwise incorporate, an especially linear DAW.
I am all for ReWire, VST, and on and on but IMO AudioMulch with those features is worth more like $299 US and up. Especially in this world where a quick check at KVR reveals what you typically get for that kind of cash.
Anyway, AM is beautiful the way it is, and worth every penny. Most, or all, of its apparent limitations can be creatively dealt with. That it enjoys the limited user base that it does really blows my mind - makes me feel sort of clever for catching on...? heh. thanks Ross B! Keep it coming.
"Of course there is already JACK and Soundflower if you really need it. "
These are in no way a replacement for ReWire. Not even close.
I believe that adding ReWire and VST capability would increase the sales and market 1000 fold... Its certainly the only thing i need and the only thing that would make me upgrade. Apart from the granuliser and mixers i use no other contraptions. Mulch purely exists as an environment for me to make convoluted chains of synths, drum machines and effects that I cant do, or cant do easily, elsewhere.
Im completely and totally confused as to why there seems to be so much resistance in adding such basic and standard features. Even if a third party was paid thousands of dollars to code these into Mulch, the new market would pay for it overnight.
Its the number one gripe and request i hear across forums and from friends. And i know i go on about it but it really makes no sense. I dont understand why Ross would toe the line with such things as.."well, this is not for you" or "youll be waiting a long time" (not direct quotes) when its obvious that its really wanted , often requested and if implemented everyone would use it.
One More:
$189 is a STEAL. I would be happy to pay $189 per year! Well... you know what I mean.
I'm with Jonah and others - AM is the perfect REPLACEMENT for just about any DAW. Studio work, live performance - anything. It's just a different way of working. A way of working that can shake up your perspective and thinking for when you do return to, or otherwise incorporate, an especially linear DAW.
I am all for ReWire, VST, and on and on but IMO AudioMulch with those features is worth more like $299 US and up. Especially in this world where a quick check at KVR reveals what you typically get for that kind of cash.
Anyway, AM is beautiful the way it is, and worth every penny. Most, or all, of its apparent limitations can be creatively dealt with. That it enjoys the limited user base that it does really blows my mind - makes me feel sort of clever for catching on...? heh. thanks Ross B! Keep it coming.
SUCKHOLE - are you for real?
I would better understand keeping AM a closed system if you could build your own modules in it like Reaktor, Bidule and Usine. The number that AM comes with is pretty limited by comparison, though they are of good quality. My favorite feature is the metasurface, but that by itself is not enough to make up for the other aspects it lacks.
You could make the argument that its limitations are a feature, forcing you to be more focused and creative with a limited number of tools. I would agree to some extent, but not for $189.
AM clearly has a very dedicated and protective following. Ross and the user base seem pretty happy.
ravasb, thanks for your input. Some points to note:
AM is not a closed system. It can be easily extended with VST and AU plugins. There are lots of good free VST and AU plugins out there. Some of the environments you mention can also be run inside AudioMulch as plugins (Reaktor and Bidule are commonly used inside AM).
You mention some great modular synth building environments (max/msp, pd and supercollider are other popular ones). I know AM has a lot to learn from them. But offering the same functionality and workflow is not the focus of AM. If you are a "build your own synth out of basic oscillators and filters" type person then I agree AM probably isn't going to be your primary tool. On the other hand, if you're a "make sounds and music processing sounds and plugging processing gadgets together" then AM has more to offer -- and I don't mean in terms of the effects, but in terms of how easy it is to do certain things. Last time I checked, repatching signal flow in the middle of a performance wasn't easy in Reaktor for example.
I agree that more contraptions would be a good thing and that is planned. I'd be very interested to hear a more complete list of "aspects it lacks" from your perspective. Either here or to rossb@audiomulch.com
Thanks!
New "roadmap" here: http://www.audiomulch.com/whats-coming
I'm happy to continue the above discussion in this thread, but please post comments about the new roadmap to the new thread: http://www.audiomulch.com/content/new-whats-coming-page-was-roadmap